My son went to a special service at the Baptist church tonight. I am not sure what brought this on, other than the promise of lots of pizza. Hey, can you blame him? He hasn't been to a Baptist service in a long time, but he thought why not see what it's about again? Before I dropped him off I told him what to expect. Preaching that they were all sinners. That all they needed to do was say this little prayer and commit to Christ and then they would be saved. Then there would be the altar call. He said he knew, but that was o.k. When I picked him up a few minutes ago he informed me that it was exactly as predicted. He went on to say that they said that one had to completely turn from sin, blah, blah, blah.. but he was disconcerted with the fact that there was no mention of continuing such a lifestyle after the magic prayer. In the car he said that he felt that Catholic and Episcopalian services seem to be far more religious that the Baptist. He didn't care for the contemporary feel of the service and the fact that they don't sing hymns. Oh, they had hymnals, but they didn't use them. He summed it up with the term unorthodox. He said that although the Catholic and Episcopal church did seem a bit "cultish" with the bowing and such, he still felt it was more reverant. Which is exactly how I feel. Well I don't think it's cultish and I explained that in a way all religions can have a cult feel in the fact that we worship Christ. It is just that the alter etc. represents Christ and that is why we bow to it. He understood.
I don't want you to think I am just bashing the Baptists. I feel there are truly righteous people within the Baptist church, like my friend Bret. And I think he is realizing that it's not about the numbers in those altar calls, but how many people actually convert themselves to a Christian life. Isn't that what it's about? Although I still have a difference of opinion on his views, I still respect him and his works. But I also know that my decision the to come home to the Catholic church is right. Not just because it "feels" right either. I know it in my mind, my heart and my soul. And I can't wait until I am in full communion with the Church.
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I thik your critque of the Baptist church Josh attended was a good one. As a matter of fact, Josh's criticisms of what he heard would no doubt be imitations of my own criticisms. What Josh (and you) were exposed to is at the heart of what Baptists are or historically have been. Yes, I embraced it (to a degree) for a time. No longer.
When Baptists and many other protestants embraced a more Arminian approach to theology, the style began to change sharply.
Josh's comments about the service being "unorthodox" is probably the same word I would use, but perhaps for more than simply the "feel" and "style" of the service. I would say it is unorthodox because of the theological underpinnings that drive it. Also, I would say the Episcopal church (in general) borders on a lack of orthodoxy in their rejection of the sufficiency, inspiration and authority of the Bible, which has led to their embrace of a host of unbiblical positions.
Now about Catholicism . . . well, I'll say a bit more later.
Your friend, Bret
I wasn't sure if you would take offense at my post, but I am glad you agree that they are going about salvation in the wrong way.
Also, it was Josh that grouped the Epicospal and Catholic churches together in his comments because he has been exposed to those services which are similar in form, but not belief. I agree with you, however, that the Episcopalian doctrine is also flawed. As you know, I also think that most protestant doctrines are flawed as well. I don't think that those that believe differently are condemned to hell, however.
I think that you are one of the few Baptists that is taking steps away from what has become a typical Baptist service. Unfortunately there are still many others stuck in the same preaching rut of trying to win as many souls to Christ as they can. It's not a contest. If they truly believe in a Calvanistic view (which I still disagree with), then they should realize that those that are "elected" will come. I think that in many churches it has become all about the numbers and the amounts in the collection plates. (And I'm not just talking about the Baptists here... it's all over.)
I grew up in a Baptist church and as a child I was not happy about having to go to church. However, it gave me the foundation that I have today that has led to a full and growing relationship with Christ. I understand that there are many different religions out there and that each has flaws in the way it is preached.
However, I believe more than anything else that those that call themselves "Christian" should be more concerned with their walk with Christ and not about how many they can recruit for the "kingdom."
Yes we are told to go and make disciples of others, but you can't make disciples if you are not one yourself.
Religion is man's way to God....Christ is God's way to God!
Just my two cents!
Thanks for having a place on the web to talk about these things!
The ultimate success of a Church will be evident by its search for, and proclamation of the Truth of the Gospel, rather than how many followers join its fold. Sheer numbers alone do not validate a Church as TRUE.
Of all the Christian denominations around today, only the Roman Catholic Church can honestly and verifiably claim to be the One Church established by Christ. I share your view that there are many holy people who belong to the Baptist, or any other denominations, but I believe that they lack the "fullness" of the faith that is taught and practiced by the Catholic Church.
This Easter, I will be celebrating my one-year anniversary of becoming a Catholic. I hope your experience proves to be as rich and "life-altering" as mine has.
God Bless!
I was raised Catholic. At 42, I started regularly attending a Baptist church. To this day, there's nothing more refreshing to me than hearing,"Open your Bible to...."
Though I have seen worse, it is sad to see the attitude of these posts. Part of our human falacy is that we like to reaffirm our beliefs though the confidence of sharing them in hopes others will agree. It then comes natural to point out what we don't like about other's walk with Christ.
I'm a lay person (including a Eucharistic Ministe) in the Catholic Church, and also and have spent a great deal of time in the seminary. I also gave my testimony in the Baptist Church a couple weeks ago, where my bi-denominational family also attends.
We are to love our brothers in Christ and not get caught up in the petty bickering of why one church is faulty and how perfect our little communion is. Let's review 1 Cor. 1:10-17 as some homework for tonight shall we?
Some people just don't get it.
I have been a Baptist all my Christian life and I have also studied the Catholic faith. I only study other faiths so I can explain the gospel in a meaningful way to people that may try to detract or add to it.
The most important thing Jesus gave us to do was make disciples!!! Period.
This statement is made by Annabel "Unfortunately there are still many others stuck in the same preaching rut of trying to win as many souls to Christ as they can. It's not a contest."
AH Yea. Your right it isn't a contest, it's a commission.
Oh and baptist are not Calvinists. Bible says that Jesus didn't come to condemn the world, but that through Him the world may be saved.
It is our belief in Jesus that saves us, nothing else. We can not earn salvation by being good, or receiving sacraments. There are many versus that tells us that. We must only have the faith of a child. Then we are to grow in grace and knowledge.
A good pastor who isn't pc will tell you are a sinner because that's what the bible teaches. That is what lets us know we need a savior. The law is indeed our school master but now we are under grace. The blood of Jesus saves me and you alike, no other way. I know that seems simple and isn't very showy, or "religious" but that's it.
The prayer you may say doesn't save you, it is a show of faith. Who would close there eyes and pray to someone they don't believe is hearing them in heaven. Even in the day of the law and before, it was always faith in God that made man righteous.
My prayer for all Catholics would be that they would open a bible and read it for thereself. Attend a Baptist church on an evening there having bible study, and not a revival. Or any other protestant denomination that is far removed from Catholicism.
Latibug said "Yes we are told to go and make disciples of others, but you can't make disciples if you are not one yourself."
Wasn't it Peter that first denied Christ? That's right we ALL fall short of the glory of God. If we say we belong to Jesus than our life should reflect that. You know that Annabel makes a reference to drinking a long island iced tea on her page, is she still a disciple?
The fact that you criticized the Babtist church is hilarious to me. Like catholics don't have enough to worry about. Think about it. Your first pope Peter was married. The bible states that a bishop must be a husband of one wife. Your church makes coments like there is no salvation outside the catholic church, really. Purgatory is no more, where did it go. I don't even want to comment on the child molestation.
my point is fix your problems and comment on them to restore some of the dignity your church ever had.
Who gives a shit? Pray to and/or believe in whatever the hell you like. Pray to Zeus for all I care. lol
"men can make virtue,they cannot make love." The Greatest Thing in the World by Henry Drummond. God is Love,we can see that through the life of His Son Jesus Christ, who bore death on the cross for all who would believe. Therefore, we can have a relationship with God our maker, through Him.
I,ve met people who live for Him in Catholic churches and Protestant churches. We suffer church splits because of different beliefs in teachings of the Bible. Before Christ we are of the natural thinking, after we accept Him we are born of the spirit, in other words, our spirit witnesses with His Spirit that He is the Son of God and we want to live for Him.
God does in us what wee can't do. He enables us to love Him in return for His gift of salvation and helps us to grow in love with one another. The Body of Christ the Church here on earth or the Bride of Christ. We look at ourselves, not as me only, but a part of the whole that God is creating. He doesn't give up on us, He is always working in our lives through His Holy Spirit. Not only does He work in our lives after we accept Him, but He was working in our lives before we knew Him. Because He desires that we would all come to know Him. He wants our hearts! There we have the power to lay it down or take it up. Concerned David.
I appreciate honest dialogue so much!
I would just add that there is one Judge(ultimately)and He looks to the motive of the action, word, or thought.We don't have to judge He will! I feel it is about a journey with Christ(as he suffered we will too)not for salvation(for it is by grace through faith)but as we grow as Christians whatever our denomination. Thanks for searching
for truth with a tender heart. Blessings!
MB
Love honesty...He is the ultimate judge who looks at the motive regardless of our denomination.
He is merciful & just at the same time. It is a journey with Christ!
Thanks for searching for truth with a tender heart(His heart). Blessings!
MB
Great honesty! Many thanks! There is only one judge(ultimately) and He looks at our motive for actions, thoughts, & words only. I see it
as a journey with Jesus to love people in His way. The Gospel is what
it is........."the Power of God..first to the Jew & then to the Greek."(Romans 1:16)
Regardless of our denomination He
looks to our heart and sees what we did with Jesus in our daily walk with others(friends & foes).
Blessings!
MB
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